-4

Preamble

Why do you pull BSD and Linux people into your business?

Context

The moderators of this site don't understand what synonym means ("exactly or nearly the same as another word") and put freebsd, bsd, linux, ubuntu into the synonyms of . The related issues are listed below

Done

Work in progress


  • Simple solution would be renaming the unix tag to unixly (see the answer below).

  • This question might be considered either a bug or feature-request. It was changed to discussion by the moderator.


Remove freebsd as a synonym of the tag on Ask Different, please.

  1. In the first place, what is the solid argument for freebsd being a synonym to unix on AskDifferent?

  2. When I filter by the tag freebsd I'm not interested in questions tagged on AskDifferent

  3. Mac people use to tag their questions instead of . For example, how to let clear command just clears the current screen

  4. I'd like to avoid answering questions to find out it's about . For example, to avoid the comments in Pipe to mv command

  5. It is not clear whether the questions about using the 3rd party software (FreeBSD, BSD, Linux, Ubuntu) are on-topic here. If they are off-topic (see the answer below) the synonyms freebsd, bsd,linux, ubuntu should be removed.


If you want to improve something put the default first tag apple to all AskDifferent questions. The topics says it's monothematic:

  • Apple HW
  • Apple SW
  • Apple services
  • 3rd party ... use with Apple products

Any browser tab label of AskDifferent should be of the form:

apple - <title of the question>

The rules are strange at the moment


Answers to some questions from the below comments:

Q1: "Are you arguing that each name is important enough to have a unique tag here?"

A: Yes. The synonyms freebsd, bsd, linux, ubuntu of your tag not only pollute the network-wide feeds but also disable proper searching by these synonyms at AskDifferent.


Q2: "Are you saying that all flavors of Unix should have distinct tags, none of which should be synonyms of Unix?"

A: No. Not all flavors. Unix is a superset of many operating systems. Include them as needed. AskDiferent tag synonyms for unix are: freebsd, bsd, linux, ubuntu. If I search tag freebsd on AskDifferent I get the 'Mac branded' description of unix! This is absurd. You should remove all the synonyms here and add them as tags if needed.


Q3: "'They can add both' is a counterargument to deduplicate them."

A: This depends on the description of your tag . The current description is not sustainable in the long term. The mess resulting from the set of unix synonyms, which are not synonyms even by far, is growing. Take a look at the Unix site. Among the topics are both:

  • Using or administering a *nix desktop or server
  • The Unix foundation underlying MacOS

Take a look at the proper set of tags. For example, [macos] [freebsd] questions. This is how your tags should look like.


Q4: "That implies some effort to retag questions."

A: Yes. Remove the synonyms and create tags instead. Then, add these tags to the questions. There are 1060 of them atm. Nearly half of them can be easily recognized by the title: gnu (10), freebsd (2), bsd (7), linux (226), ubuntu (166), sed (12), awk (3), posix (2).

Let the users create new tags as needed.


5: Quoting from the comment by the administrator @Monomeeth: "Ask Different is for users of Apple products, be it hardware, software or service - all Apple. And, when it's about a 3rd party hardware, software or service, they're only on topic here if the question is about using them with an Apple product"

A: The answer by another administrator @nohillside contradicts your statement (in bold).

Q: "Not sure I understand the point about the apple tag."

A: Because of the topics all AskDifferent questions should be tagged apple. SE concatenates a label in the browser tab from the first tag and the question title. As a result, all AskDifferent questions should have a label of the form apple - <title of the question>. Not in the form unix - <title of the question> if the first tag in the question is unix.

22
  • 2
    Not sure I understand the point about the apple tag: All questions here relate to Apple products, what is the value of a tag which applies to all questions?
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 26, 2023 at 21:38
  • 1
    Also, within the context of the site, can you list questions which would benefit from having a distinct freebsd tag? And if yes, would the majority of askers share that distinction?
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 26, 2023 at 21:42
  • Anyway, if you look at the description of the unix tag, it seems to be an appropriate tag for the „clear“ question.
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 26, 2023 at 21:51
  • 2
    I wouldn't support adding Apple as a default first tag. After all, Ask Different is for users of Apple products, be it hardware, software or service - all Apple. And, when it's about a 3rd party hardware, software or service, they're only on topic here if the question is about using them with an Apple product, so it's implied that every question relates to Apple anyway.
    – Monomeeth Mod
    Commented Apr 26, 2023 at 22:19
  • However, if a solid argument can be put forth on removing freebsd as a synonym for Unix, I'm open to supporting that. But I agree with @nohillside - can you list questions which would benefit from having a distinct freebsd tag? And if we went down that path, are you saying that all flavors of Unix should have distinct tags, none of which should be synonyms of Unix?
    – Monomeeth Mod
    Commented Apr 26, 2023 at 22:19
  • 3
    All AskDifferent posts are about Apple products, an apple tag is simply redundant. Tags should be used to make topics easy to follow, not to look nice in a UI.
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 26, 2023 at 22:23
  • apple tag would be (or has already been) blocked as an intrinsic tag though.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Apr 27, 2023 at 8:07
  • Microsoft is a vendor of software running on Apple devices, so a tag may be useful. We also have an adobe tag (and probably some more in the same category).
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 27, 2023 at 9:11
  • To repeat a point made earlier: which unix-labeled questions would benefit from a distinct freebsd tag? And do you have examples for AD questions which would not be labeled apple if we would have such a tag?
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 27, 2023 at 9:14
  • I'm not much changed in my thinking from 2019 on the unix tag.
    – bmike Mod
    Commented Apr 27, 2023 at 18:18
  • I rolled back your edit about what I apparently said. Everybody interested can read it directly in the answer below, also, if you quote me, please do so correctly and don't change the meaning while still attributing it to me.
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 7:15
  • You keep misquoting us and pulling statements out of context. Please read the first part of my answer more carefully.
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 8:09
  • The point is your answer contradicts not only your own comment but the comment of the moderator @ Monomeeth as well. Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 8:10
  • 1
    @nohillside Based on the user's Meta Stack Exchange posts, their main complaint is that they are subscribed to a network-wide feed of [freebsd]-tagged questions, and they're finding that the synonym here on this site is polluting their feed with questions that aren't related to FreeBSD. They want that feed to only consist of questions that are directly related to FreeBSD, so they want the synonym removed for that purpose.
    – gparyani
    Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 16:44
  • 1
    Nobody said anything about off topic. The issue is demand for FreeBSD here on AD. You can ask all the FreeBSD questions on Apple hardware you want; whether you get an answer because there’s people with that knowledge is a totally different story.
    – Allan
    Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 3:54

1 Answer 1

5

I don't see the need for a specific tag as questions about using FreeBSD (and its variants) itself are as off-topic on Apple.SE as are questions about using Linux, Windows or VAX/VMS.

To quote from https://apple.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic (emphasis added)

Ask Different is for users of Apple products. If you have a question about a practical problem you are trying to solve as a user of...

  • Apple hardware
  • Apple software
  • Apple services including iTunes Connect (selling music, books, apps)
  • third-party hardware, services and software when associated for use with Apple products.

... then you're in the right place to ask your question!

Any question here already has an implicit tag because all questions are asked within an Apple context.

This also limits the scope of all the other tags on Apple.SE, for instance the tag you mentioned above. Basically this tag means "question related to the Unix/BSD foundation, command line shells, or any binaries & scripts running in such a shell, within the constraints of macOS/iOS" (which basically is also reflected in the tag definition). Any answer to such a question is to be given within the Apple world.

Keep in mind that for most end users of Apple products (which is the audience of this site), "Unix" usually means "What runs in Terminal". So having , and some other commonly used terms as synonyms of helps to keep the more "unixly" questions together, without getting lost in details. If people are looking for generic Unix answers (or even answers considering all the flavors of Unix/BSD/Linux/Hurd/...), then asking/searching on Unix&Linux is for sure the better way to go.

22
  • Your statement: "I don't see the need for a specific freebsd tag as questions about using FreeBSD (and its variants) itself are as off-topic on Apple.SE as are questions about using Linux ..." is in contradiction with your previous comment on Separate Linux tag from Unix: "... unix is used both for questions relating to the Unix-like parts of macOS and for installing Unix-like OSes on Apple hardware. Both are on-topic on AD. ... I would be strongly in favor of a split here " Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 3:08
  • 1
    @VladimirBotka I learned in the meantime that this would not have been practical because it doesn't help how well-structured and well-intended tags are: If users afterwards don't use them as intended, having too many detailed tags is more harmful than useful. But thanks for pointing out that I thought about this differently in the past.
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 7:10
  • 1
    It's also obvious from the context that the idea of having separate tags never got traction with the AD community and wasn't pursued further.
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 7:11
  • 1
    As a person who chooses FreeBSD over Linux by a large margin, I would love to have a tag for it (i.e. FreeBSD on MacBook) , but given the lack of engagement, it doesn’t make sense. Maybe I’m wrong here, but anything FreeBSD related, I head over to Unix & Linux on SE
    – Allan
    Commented Apr 28, 2023 at 23:23
  • 1
    @Allan, Searching the tag freebsd returns all questions about unix, gnu, bsd, linux, ubuntu, sed, awk, posix. From this perspective, one might consider the engagement rather large. Commented Apr 30, 2023 at 15:05
  • 1
    How many of those are bona fide FreeBSD questions, @VladimirBotka?
    – Allan
    Commented Apr 30, 2023 at 15:39
  • I'd like to know too. See my first question in bold. Commented Apr 30, 2023 at 15:41
  • 1
    It was (mostly) rhetorical, there’s really not a lot here @VladimirBotka
    – Allan
    Commented Apr 30, 2023 at 23:35
  • @Allan, and it seems that it shouldn't be here anything at all. Among the Unix topics you can find: The Unix foundation underlying MacOS. Commented May 1, 2023 at 0:04
  • @VladimirBotka if you look at the whole paragraph at wiki.freebsd.org/…, you can see that the relationship between FreeBSD and macOS is way more complex than just „FreeBSD is the foundation of macOS“. It‘s not that relevant though: if people have FreeBSD questions, they get good answers when asking at a site where FreeBSD people hang out. If people have Windows questions -> Windows-focused site. In both cases, AD isn’t a good place even though both OS run on Apple hardware.
    – nohillside Mod
    Commented May 1, 2023 at 6:40
  • @nohilside, the point is if people have MacOS questions about Unix, they get good answers when asking at a site where Unix people hang out. The Unix site provides atm 800 macos Q/A. All tags and their combinations [macos][gnu] (16), [macos][bsd] (47), [macos][lnux] (254), [macos][ubuntu] (94), [macos][sed] (97), [macos][awk] (47), [macos][posix] (12), [macos] [freebsd] (29) work as expected on Unix! Commented May 1, 2023 at 14:34
  • 1
    That argument to nohillside’s point doesn’t strengthen your position @VladimirBotka. We have 271 questions here that contain “FreeBSD”. The most recent ones are mine and most of the rest don’t ask BSD related questions but rather make reference to it.
    – Allan
    Commented May 1, 2023 at 21:54
  • 1
    @nohillside Yes but you can't do that with the unix tag and its synonyms as it is too broad
    – mmmmmm
    Commented May 4, 2023 at 10:37
  • 1
    @nohillside for AD I don't think the FreeBSD tag is useful. The split of linux, sed awk and removal of unix would be useful
    – mmmmmm
    Commented May 4, 2023 at 13:36
  • 2
    @nohillside Added apple.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4212/…
    – mmmmmm
    Commented May 4, 2023 at 14:17

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